Glitches and Lag

Homen · League God Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 924 Pictures: 0

I believe a proper stance should be made.

Either no glitches, or all glitches allowed.

I dont believe a "per basis" stance is acceptable, nor fair. Of course I'm not talking about "bugging" or anything, that is a completely unavoidable trait.

What I am talking about, is anything involving controls.ct edits (changing your controls to something more convient), router tapping, running fraps to lower FPS ect, anything not within the original intended scope of the game.

For instance, many users have been commonly known to edit their controls.ct file to make using potions, or grip ect instantly easier. Many players in the past have abused pausing their router to escape camps and juggles. MANY players have run Fraps in the background to intentionally create FPS lag. Even more players play with terrible computers for the sole intention of lagging.

All cases are beyond the intentional scope of the game. It is completely unacceptable to allow one thing, but immediately ban another.

Furthermore, since we do "net lag" tests to determine a players stability to be played with in games, an FPS lag test needs to be administered as well. This goes along with the Fraps and slow computer issue. If a player net lags too badly to give them an advantage, they cant play in the league. If a player FPS lags too badly to be fair, they're still allowed to play, regardless of how bad the issue is. Many players abuse multiple methods to create FPS lag, and if a stance isnt taken on regulating a player's FPS lag, then I, along with many other players, will come up with methods to intentionally create said FPS lag to even the advantages. Net lag is checked in the league, FPS lag isnt, yet both produce the same results.

This post has 2 purposes:

1 - All glitches, or no glitches. Either ban everything outside the intention of the game, or anything goes, because in the long run, everything can be abused.

2 - Regulating a player's FPS lag. Net lag is checked, FPS lag is not. It is unacceptable, seeing as both types of lag produce THE SAME EXACT positive advantages for the laggers.

Mint · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject:

...and how exactly, do we monitor who's cheating and who can't help their fps lag?

I'd also be curious as to how we could check for someone misusing their router or modem.
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Homen · League God Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 924 Pictures: 0

Jowy2000 · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:33 am Post subject:

glitches = too vague
especially considering you didn't even mention a single glitch in your whole post. You made references to 3 things that aren't glitches, and also happen to be impossible to attempt to enforce in any way, we might as well be asking the players not to wear pink shirts while they play. If you'd like to actually talk about glitches, perhaps mention some?

regulating fps of a player - ridiculous concept, think about it.

Just for some thought:
When my laptop overheats it automatically drops my processor speed really low for 3-5 seconds to cool down, during this time I'll get 1-5 frames and float there. This is a major pain in the ass for me, but during this time I won't take any damage or anything, I'll just float there. I wouldn't consider this anywhere close to an advantage, rather a disadvantage, but you would propose I ban myself?
-Softnyx has a new odd glitch where player's fps will randomly drop, though I always stay at 60fps, sometimes this kicks in and I'll stay around 30 for a short while, this happens to other players I know too. Are you proposing we ban all of them?
-Someone's antivirus kicks in and starts sifting through that player's computer for viruses, frame rate drop. Ban?
-Person gets minimized from an AIM/MSN message, effectively lowering their frame rate to 0... ban?
Or how about the poor bastard who likes to play Rakion but can't afford a nice computer and has to play with a low frame rate, ban him too? Do you think this person believes they have an advantage? I doubt it, I've played on computers like that, and know people who play like that, it is definitely not an advantage.
And whats to distinguish between these and players who decide to start running fraps or using crappy computers to lower their frame rate? Could we ever know? No, and if we could, they would just present the argument that there are other players that play with a low frame rate, why can't they? And they would be right, the idea of barring someone from participation because their computer is too crappy not only sounds ridiculous, but also impossible to effectively test and enforce.

The advantages/disadvantages of high/low fps are not even something we can be sure about as it is...
although I'm sure you thought beyond what it's like to hit a person who's frame lagging while being one who isn't /end sarcasm.
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Homen · League God Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 924 Pictures: 0

I wouldn't actually expect my points to be scrutinized and analyze to that extent. I'm not suggesting that any FPS spike or momentary freeze means someone gets immediately banned from the league. I myself am subject to the recent Rakion patch that causes me to FPS lag for a few seconds, before returning to a consistent 60 fps.

Every single one of your examples (except the "poor bastard who likes to play rakion"), are completely beyond the scope of my post. I'm talking about players that consistently play at 20-25 FPS. Trust me, there are multiple ways to create consistent FPS lag that is advantageous to the player. Every single one of your examples (besides the aforementioned one) are completely ridiculous and beyond the scope of my original intention. I'm NOT suggesting that a single FPS spike and you have to be banned from the league.

Sublime · Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 34 Pictures: 0

For Instance, when you try to hit certain players, something like this happens. Which could only be illustrated by a picture drawn in Paint.

Note that he hasnt even used any of his potions yet.

Shelbster · League God Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 843 Pictures: 0

Well, just to make a point.

I'm sure some of you have seen me in SH games when I try taking a video with fraps. When I jump I can charge special in the air. I can invincible, and leave a very minimal gap to be hit back, meaning if I were to just constantly do invincibles, I could get away with 5 or 6 without getting hit back. Risings miss me completely. I can stand and charge up a special as someone tries to basic me. The only attacks that actually hit me 100% of the time are pure range attacks (not jump attacks or pokes or anything). That, and it drastically increases chaos time.

As far as enforcing it, it would be next to impossible to enforce. I can only think of one user in the league who has that fps lag naturally. I've wondered before why they are allowed to play, but at the same time, they have it naturally while others create it at times and are still allowed to play.

Again, this is just an example. I don't use fraps in scrims because whenever I take a video, it messes up my ventrillo and I cannot talk, that, and it makes me crash about 20% of the time, which is obviously something I want to avoid in a scrim.
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Dr.Danimals · League Advocate Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 133 Pictures: 0

While there are many annoyances and unfair ways to gain an advantage in Rakion (controls.ctl edits, router abuse, intentional fps lagging), lets face it, Rakion isn't a good enough game to be played competitively. Until we connect to a server and not directly to other players (which is never) , there isn't much anyone can do to eliminate connection problems. It is too easy to create an advantage for yourself, and it is challenging to tell whether or not a player is using underhand methods.

I am all for creating fairer league, but unfortunately, we can only discourage certain behaviour.

On the other hand, I don't consider pots unfair in any way. Sure they are annoying as hell, and you have to adjust your tactics away from just beating up on one player constantly, but they aren't unfair because we both have equal opportunity to buy pots from the inventory. If you want to win, you will buy them. Using pots as an excuse is basically just saying that you don't care about winning as much as the other team does. I get by with my 1 energy pot that doesn't even cost cash, so can you.

Zetapoo · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:50 am Post subject:

The problems with what you propose is that it brings up the issue of being difficult to enforce. Usually in these situations if you put a rule in place it will open the door to way too much speculation and finger pointing because of the nature of them.

How do you propose we monitor controls.ctl file editing? Obviously if they are using some glitch that can only be accomplished by editing that file it would be easy, but how would you track the "little things" like a grip button(which is not anymore helpful than clicking 2 fingers)?

Maybe you could enlighten me as to this because I don't think I could make my computer FPS lag if I tried, but how could you give yourself an advantage via FPS lag? I played rakion on my laptop which usually gets around 20fps, I couldn't hit a thing and I would be dead before I even knew what happened. So consistent fps lag is a very different issue than consistent net lag IMO.

And of course using fraps to kill your fps should not be allowed, its the same tapping your modem/router. The problem is enforceability.
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Jowy2000 · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:33 am Post subject:

There's a difference between changing your controls and making it possible to invincible with an ungodly high move speed.
Since no one cares to elaborate about how this glitch works I'll just guess... I'd like to assume that there is no edit that says EnableHighMoveSmithInvincible=1 and that the edits done in the file are interpreted by Rakion in a way that it wasn't suppose to since it's safe to assume that Softnyx wouldn't want smiths to be able to do this, hence making it a glitch, an error in how the game functions, an unintended result in how the game functions, a mistake in how it works, an effect in the game outside the normal game capacity, whatever you want to call it.

That's quite different than changing what buttons you use to do what, and significantly more enforceable. It's not like smiths could have done this previously by hitting some other button and now you're just changing the button.
EDIT: And luckily the rules are vague enough to allow the game mods to apply a punishment should they find it necessary, while there is no specific rule against this yet, it could easily be defined by the game mods as cheating and fall under rule 9.5.6 allowing us to punish the team. It's these rules that allow the game mods to make rational decisions about aspects of the game not specifically covered.

Asianese · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:45 am Post subject:

actually I know 1, but it was always in a SH game.. where all you do is special, and since you couldn't hit him, but he could special again.. and again.. and again..
and rising attacks no work on him. so once he gets you in a corner, it's over.
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Panzerlord · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:59 am Post subject:

Homen, wanna switch computers? I have constant 25-30 fps in Stay hall 8v8, so 6v6 clan scrims shuld be around 30-35 fps on my computer. You cannot imagine how it feels to have below 25 fps. I have max move speed and speed equipment, and I walked slower than a lvl 31 mage last round in a game yesterday. If you truely want em to, Ill show you my fraps fps Very Happy

. Its all natural.
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BH-Dusk · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:01 am Post subject:

I have FPS lag at times, thats why i turn on a fan when i play, which helps me get more frames, but if i don't use it, i can't stand playing because my laptop overheats. With bad frames, the player can barely do much, and has less move speed. Best thing to do, run 5 secs away from them?
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ImRichBioch · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject:

lengend · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject:

dumbest f'ing idea ever

i ban yo ass for FPS lagging noob!

then there should be ppl banned for bug abusing aka recommender bug *cough*superb*cough*
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